[The Well Endowed Podcast theme music plays]

Shereen Zink [00:00:25] Hello everyone. Welcome to ECF’s Well Endowed Podcast. I’m Shereen Zink—

Andrew Paul [00:00:29] And I’m Andrew...

Paul. This podcast is a proud affiliate member of the Alberta Podcast Network.

Shereen [00:00:35] Edmonton is full of generous donors who’ve created endowment funds at Edmonton Community Foundation. These funds are carefully stewarded to generate money that supports charities in Edmonton and beyond.

Andrew [00:00:45] And on this podcast, we share stories about how these funds help strengthen our community… because it’s good to be well endowed.

Shereen [00:00:52] This is a very special episode because we get to meet Tina Thomas, who is Edmonton Community Foundation’s new Chief Executive Officer.

Andrew [00:01:00] We don’t do this very often, but we’re going to toot our own horn just for a moment. ECF is actually the fourth largest community foundation in Canada and is the largest non-governmental funder in Edmonton. We distribute more than $30M into the community every year.

Shereen [00:01:15] That’s right. ECF is a super awesome organization already and we are really excited to have Tina join our team here at ECF. She comes to us with a wealth of experience. Tina joined us in August of 2022, but before that, she spent over 13 years at the Edmonton Public Library, and most recently she was the Executive Director of customer experience there. During her time at EPL, she was responsible for a ton of their innovative services and she was also the main champion and leader behind their award-winning rebrand, which helped transform the perception and the use of EPL so… super impressive work.

Andrew [00:01:50] Prior to this, she spent 13 years in the private sector working for Canadian telecommunications provider Nortel. She was an Edify Magazine top 40 under 40, and a Library Journal magazine mover and shaker and IABC Edmonton Communicator of the Year. And that’s just scratching the surface.

Shereen [00:02:06] Yeah, she brings so much experience and a wide range of skills to our team, so we are very happy to have her. And for our fellow teammates who are listening, we hear she can be bribed with a good dark chocolate and California cabs.

[The Well Endowed Podcast jingle plays in background]

Andrew [00:02:18] Good to know. Our producer, Lisa Pruden, sat down with Tina to talk about her career, growing up in Edmonton, and what comes next.

Lisa Pruden [00:02:25] Tina, thank you so much for joining us today on the podcast. It’s really great to have you here.

Tina Thomas [00:02:31] Thanks, Lisa.

Lisa [00:02:32] And before we get started, I feel it’s important information for me to have, what are California cabs?

Tina [00:02:38] Oh, um, Cabernet Sauvignon Wine from California. That’s it. [laughs] It’s Cab. Cabernet from California.

Lisa [00:02:46] Oh my gosh, good to know.

Tina [00:02:48] I have a, you know— I’ve done the whole Old World versus New World wine, um, testing, and I am a New World wine drinker. I like South Africa, Australia, and California. And I do like, um, Okanagan a little bit and, um, the Niagara Valley a little bit too, but California’s my favourite.

Lisa [00:03:05] See, I love this. As a non-wine person, I just— Today— I am today years old when I learned that there is Old World wines and New World wines. And now I’m— [laughs] I just wanna ask you about why now.

Tina [00:03:19] [laughs] Oh, don’t ask me. I-I know very little. My-my knowledge is thin, but I know what I like.

Lisa [00:03:22] Awesome. Well, um, I kind of wanted to start out… from the very beginning. I read that you grew up in Mill Woods, and so I was going to ask if you could tell us about that.

Tina [00:03:32] Uh, yeah. My parents, um, moved to-to Edmonton when I was about four years old, five years old, just before I started grade one. And, uh, we had lived in Calgary before that and previously Peace River. So I was born in Peace River and, um, we moved into Mill Woods when it was just… developing, so it wasn’t as large or as expansive as it… as it is today. Um, and I went to John Paul I Catholic School, so we were the first cohort. I was in grade one, my brother was in grade three. We were in portables. There were no other classrooms and the school grew with us. And I-I grew up living in that neighbourhood, living in that house, um, until I left, um… when I got my first job out of university working in Ottawa. So we were in that house and that neighbourhood for a long time. And, um, you know, I had great experience living, um, and making friendships there.

Lisa [00:04:18] That’s wonderful. Do you feel that… the neighbourhood you grew up in informed you in any way?

Tina [00:04:24] Yeah, certainly. Uh. Mill Woods is a very— has been and— back then and continues to be very multicultural. So— And then also for me, going through the Catholic system, I-I’m sure it would’ve been the same in the public system too, but, you know, I had friends that were, you know, Ukrainian, Croatian, Polish, uh, Italian. Um, so people that are, you know— had been multi-generational Canadian families. And then I had, um, friends that were from the West Indies and Trinidad and Korea and uh, the Philippines and Chile. And so I— my community had always been and has always been quite diverse and multicultural and I think that has a lot to do with growing up in a neighbourhood like Mill Woods that you get to experience people from a wide variety of backgrounds.

Lisa [00:05:07] What drew you to business and marketing?

Tina [00:05:10] I think like a lot of… of students, including my children, you don’t necessarily know what you wanna do when you grow up. You know, when people ask me that today, I still say I don’t know what I wanna do when I grow up. So I didn’t really have a plan in place. I knew I didn’t wanna go into sciences. I knew I didn’t wanna go into arts. So I wanted to— I thought I could do something, maybe, that would have a little more practical— have a practical outcome for me. And it seemed like business would be a good fit for that. So that’s why I chose it. But even when I went into business, I didn’t pick a major. You know, a lot of people go into business and they know they wanna be in finance or they wanna be in accounting or they wanna do HR. I didn’t wanna do any of those things.

[00:05:48] I had always been interested in international things, whether that be politics or travel or… culture. So international business sounded interesting, marketing sounded interesting. Um, so I just took courses in both of those areas, but I didn’t major in either of them. But I think what was good about my university experience, um— was similar to probably what I did in school was I got involved in a lot of things. So I joined a club and I did a project with that club that gave me a little bit of experience. From that experience, it was, um, AIESEC, which is, um, the International Association of Students of Economics and Business. It got me thinking about going away for school for a period of time. So I did an international exchange with the U of A and I went to England.

[00:06:30] And when I went to England, I studied international business and it was the time when the European Union was just starting. So I am old, this was a long time ago. And so, there was all these students from Continental Europe that were going to school where I was. So I made all these friends from… from countries all over Europe and I got to experience and understand and learn about, um, what was happening with the EU firsthand. So I did that for a year and when I came back, I-I decided I wanted to do the co-op program, which would then allow me to work and go to school.

So I think those are the things that kind of made my university experience much richer. Um. And though my degree was quite general, by the time I graduated, I was able to get a job right away. And I didn’t know any other students that had my… basic education, you know, not majoring in something that got jobs right after university. So I got a job working with one of the companies that I had done a, um… a co-op placement with. Um, I had worked for Nortel, which was a telecommunications company in Calgary. And, uh, they had offered me a job to work in their Ottawa office. And so… I decided to do it. So I graduated and packed up and left and moved to Ottawa.

Lisa [00:07:39] Yeah! And Nortel’s a really cool story because you just kind of… learned your way through that whole organization by taking on new opportunities?

Tina [00:07:48] Yeah! It was really— it was a fantastic company for someone like me just starting out in that it was really large, it was a multinational company. They had, you know, divisions across the world and divisions in a bunch of different areas. So I started in a pure marketing communications role, which meant I did an international magazine. I was responsible for the creation and editing and story generation of a magazine. Um. I worked in media relations and analyst relations and I worked on collateral, so marketing pieces. I wasn’t responsible for any of them. I wasn’t responsible for the content. I just helped pull it all together. So, you know, a real marketing communications role. But Nortel was very open to people moving and moving into different areas, trying new things. I mean, if I wanted to get into engineering, they would’ve found a path to allow me to do that, which I never did. But I just thought— thought that was such a… open and rich way of thinking of people.

[00:08:45] Um. But I moved from marketing communications into an analytics role. So I was then— I moved from, you know, something that was very kind of creative and project management-oriented into an area where I was a subject matter expert around our market share, how we were performing. So I did that and then I moved into, you know, a pure product marketing role. And in that opportunity, they gave me the opportunity to just say, “Hey, can you build this business?”

You know, they had a great business in one area, which was… optical networking for large, um, service providers like a Telus or a Bell. And they wanted to say, “Well, how would we use this technology for hospitals and universities and schools?” And no one was really thinking about that. And so, I was tasked with helping figure that out. How can we promote something we already have with a new group? Um, so again, I got to do that. It was a great place to be able to develop a really broad base of experiences. I got to go deep in certain areas, but then I also got to do a lot of variety.

[00:09:47] So there are certain people that I think have more of an interest in sticking with one thing. Like saying, “I’m just gonna do media relations and I’m gonna do that for the rest of my life.” Or “I’m just gonna do, um… product management and I’m gonna do that for the rest of my life.” I wasn’t interested in staying with anything that long. Um. And I really liked taking what I had learned from one place and seeing how it would apply to another.

[00:10:11] I-I think what was great about Nortel is it really allowed me to… to get a variety of experiences and that is of interest to me. I wasn’t— I didn’t wanna be a subject matter expert in only one thing. Um. I’d always thought that having more breadth of knowledge in a variety of areas is more interesting to me and more how I wanted my career to be. I never had a five-year plan or a two-year plan. Um. It was more that as opportunities came up and they seemed interesting, I would go for it and I would try it.

Lisa [00:10:39] Mm. That’s excellent. I was really, um, looking forward to asking you about that actually ‘cause, um, from some of the other interviews that I read and hearing your experience and how you… built your career in this way, it really looked like you were being… I don’t know, guided by your gut or by curiosity, I wasn’t sure, but that’s so interesting that it’s like… you kind of followed your… your interests and passion.

Tina [00:11:01] Yeah, I— Again, I think at Nortel it really was very much that people had the opportunity after two or three years of doing a role to change into something else. And not everybody did, but I did ‘cause I thought, “Well, I could try. I’ve done this. I know how to do this. I’m good. It’s time to try something else.” So I’m not change-adverse. Um. I’m not challenge-adverse. I do like to learn and I do like to change. So the opportunity to go into new areas probably was sometimes by my gut. Sometimes it was because people said, “Hey, why don’t you try this?” Or “There’s this opportunity there and it’s really cool.” Or, you know, even one, um— You know, sometimes it wasn’t even on purpose. Like I— You know, you think about this that sometimes the best things happen when you don’t want them to.

[00:11:48] And I had a really great job. I was leading a really good group, um, in a technology that I, um, you know… understood really well. And the president of that group, who I had a great relationship with, moved into another group and he asked me if I wanted to join. And I said, “Yeah! That would be interesting.” Not thinking of what would happen next with that. And what happened next is he moved me pretty immediately into a role that I didn’t want. And so, I was upset ‘cause I thought, “I’m moving into a whole other area. I’m moving into technology I don’t know, and we’re gonna be working with people who don’t know me and now I’m in a job that I actually don’t want.” So I wasn’t happy and you know, y-you’re kind of wallowing in your misery for a little bit.

[00:12:34] But… it was the best decision. It was the best thing that happened ‘cause while it was miserable for maybe a couple months, I learned a whole bunch of new things. I got to do a lot of new things that I wouldn’t have been able to do if I had stayed. I got a promotion. Not because of— I didn’t move and get a promotion, I worked into a promotion and then from that, because I had that experience, I got to do something else. It’s like that was my first lesson that sometimes the things that seem like problems in your life or things that happen that you don’t wanna happen actually are the best thing.

Lisa [00:13:07] That’s great. And I like that positive outlook too. It’s a lesson I take from the ski hill, which I’m terrible at skiing… really bad at it, but whenever I practice it, it’s great to be on the hill going, “I’m terrified” and remembering, like, “Don’t look at the tree. Look at where you wanna go. Embrace what’s uncomfortable and find what’s good and make your path through.”

Tina [00:13:28] Yeah, I-I completely agree ‘cause I think… um, I could have, um— and I did. I probably wallowed more than I would’ve wanted to in hindsight. Uh, maybe more for me, maybe not. Like, if other people looked at it they’d be like, “Oh! You got over that pretty quickly.” But, um, probably more than I would’ve liked to. But in the end, as I said, it was the best thing that could have happened. There were so many more opportunities that came for me because that change happened. And would I have made that change on my own? Maybe. Maybe a little bit later, but probably not.

Lisa [00:13:58] Another thing I wanted to ask you about was… the sense of balancing time. So with all of the… learning and making your way through and taking challenges as they come, that’s one aspect of being in the world. Um. But then we all currently have all of these roles that we inhabit. And so, you have your new role as the CEO here at ECF. You’re also a mom. You have many other things that you do for hobbies and learning. How do you balance your time between all the roles that you inhabit?

Tina [00:14:27] Yeah, I-I think time is a tough one in that I think… everyone struggles with whatever time they have and, um, you know, I think I do have a lot on my plate and I do take things on… and I would probably still take more on and probably more than other people do. But I think we all have more time than we think we do. And I think we all waste more time than we need to, including myself. You know, did I need to watch six episodes of something on Netflix all night and, you know, go to bed at four in the morning? Probably not the best decision, but I can still do those things. Um, but I-I am trying to think of— and again, I don’t do it as well as some other people that do it even more than I do about… am I using my time in the best way?

[00:15:18] Doing my MLIS I was— you know, I did that, uh, in my 40s so not that long ago and I did it while I had a full-time, pretty senior job and two young children. And… that showed me I have more time than I think I do. The— Be-being able to do that and manage my life and still have a bit of a social life at the same time showed me I have a lot more time than I think I do. And so, when I finished, I didn’t wanna just go back to what I was doing and that’s why I decided, “Okay, what am I gonna replace this with? Because I do have more time than I think I do.” Um, you know, I have kids that are a little bit older now, but even when they were younger, it was always a juggle. The good news is I have a husband that was very supportive and, you know, he definitely— um, you know, he coaches them in soccer and basketball and he takes them to all their games. So I could come in and out of that more so than maybe other parents do.

[00:16:12] But I think, again, it’s just how you dec— determine what you wanna do with your time. You know, could I vegetate in front of the television or could I read a great book or read a great story? Um, you know, working at the library has introduced me to audiobooks and podcasts. So I feel like if I’m driving in my car for 45 minutes or 40 minutes one way in a commute coming downtown back and forth every day, well, I could use that more productively listening to a podcast or an audiobook. Um. And it’s way more enjoyable. Um. Or if I’m deciding to go for a walk, I could do the same thing. So I think there’s ways of, you know, bundling your time with other things too. And I love that statement of “If you want something done, give it to someone who’s busy.” Because people who are busy, I feel like, figure out how to fit— do things in the time that they have.

Lisa [00:16:56] I also like that idea, too, you said about, um, kind of like bundling the time. I also enjoy podcasts for when I’m house cleaning. It’s like, “I gotta clean the house. What would make this better is… is this storytelling podcast that I found.”

Tina [00:17:08] Temptation bundling, that’s what it’s called. Did you hear that from Freakon— There’s a podcast, Freakonomics, that talks about temptation bundling. So the idea of doing something you don’t like with something you do like. So… I wouldn’t like house cleaning, so listening to a book or a podcast while you’re cleaning: great! Or for me, you know, it might be watching Downton Abbey while I’m doing the elliptical. Um. So I think there’s ways t-to put things together and be more efficient with your time.

Lisa [00:17:37] So yes, your work at EPL was hugely innovative and you found a lot of great new ways to bring people into the space and connect community together there. Um. Edmonton Community Foundation, also a unique organization for building community. Um. Wha-what are you excited about in this space? What are you looking forward to?

Tina [00:17:56] I think there’s lots of things to be excited about and it’s interesting that— I’ve said this to people that my excitement about the Edmonton Community Foundation grows the longer I’m with the Edmonton Community Foundation. So, basically, the more I learn about the Edmonton Community Foundation, the more I’m excited ‘cause there’s just… so many opportunities for us to do… do things. I was gonna say do more. The Community Foundation already does a lot, so I think it’s just amplifying what we already do and maybe putting a little bit more focus on some of the things that we do. But I think there’s just so many opportunities for ECF. I think of it a little like the Edmonton Public Library in many ways. And I think— I wouldn’t have thought that when I started, but, you know, like the Edmonton Public Library, which is an organization for all of Edmonton, Edmonton Community Foundation is for all of Edmonton.

[00:18:41] And, you know, like my view was when I was at EPL is that you can have something for everyone. You can provide services for everyone. But it doesn’t mean you have to provide those services equally for everyone. There might be areas where you can have more of an impact. And that’s how I look at ECF. I think we can provide funding support, programming support, whatever we do for all of Edmonton, but there are still ways that we can probably figure out where are there gaps in the community that an organization like ours can really help amplify and put some concerted effort around to make a meaningful change.

Lisa [00:19:19] Looking at those more kind of social-based issues, um, like poverty or housing or food security, um, we talked a little while ago and you had mentioned that idea of, um, investing in, like, preventative solutions. And I was wondering if you would talk a little bit more about that and the importance of… of preventative programming.

Tina [00:19:38] Yeah, I do think— Like, a lot of what we end up funding, you know, politically through government or through organizations that are working in the nonprofit sector is… unfortunately reactionary to where we are in society in that moment in time. Um, you know, so I think about poverty and homelessness. There are many factors that would addr— would impact all of those, but what can we be doing earlier and longer to have a more long-term effect on these? So I think about early literacy and that was something, you know, we spent a lot of time on when I was at the Edmonton Public Library. And there’s just so much evidence, um… reams of evidence that shows the importance of children having all of those early learning skills developed before they’re five, before they go to school. So knowing their letters, being able to have dexterity, um, relationships with people. Things that the— an organization like the library puts some focus on.

[00:20:37] But the stats are so clear that if those things happen before five, a child is more likely to be successful later in life, more likely to graduate from high school, less likely to go to prison, more likely to be, um, employed, more likely to, um, finish higher education. Um. So all of those kind of societal risk factors can be reduced with those kind of early intervention, um, supports. Unfortunately, those are so long-term to focus on. So it becomes harder to get people to think about investing in those areas because they’re not gonna see the results in a year or two, uh, or three or five. You know, you have to see them over a generation, um, you know, over 10, 15, 20 years. Um, you know, I look at an organization like the public library, I look at organizations like the United Way that are really trying to do some work in these areas and I applaud them.

[00:21:28] And I think that’s where the uniqueness of an organization like ECF can step in is that we are not, um, political in nature. We can think long-term. We don’t have to be worried about, um, you know, a cycle of new people coming in and having new priorities tomorrow. So I think that’s where an organization like ECF really… unlike most others, can be thinking about preventative measures. And I don’t know what all of them are. Um, you know, I just have some experience with early literacy from my time at the library. Um. But I’m sure there are many others that, um… that warrant a time and attention that an organization like ECF could support.

Lisa [00:22:05] Absolutely. Especially… especially with our own long-term vision of giving and philanthropy.

Tina [00:22:11] Mhmmm, yeah. I mean I-I look at, uh, the power of an organization like ECF, um, that is… endowment-based, which means that community members are investing long-term into an organization that invests that money so that money can be provided out into the community forever. Um. Not for one year or two years or five years, but forever. Um. We really have the ability to change the way that nonprofits operate and the way that the charitable sector operates. If, um… if more people thought about that investment instead of, you know, how do I keep the lights on this year? Instead we’re thinking about, “How do I have sustainable sources of funding that make sure that I can keep operating for the next 5, 10, 15, 20 years.” Then they don’t— they can worry less about what individual donors are asking them to do or, you know, um, chasing grant funding and changing the priorities because the grant was given to them to do this thing this year, um, and instead have more control over their own destiny.

Lisa [00:23:14] ECF has a reputation of being, uh, an innovative funder, an innovative organization in the community. Um. As you’re looking ahead to… how ECF will continue to grow and support community, what do you see? Do you see any changes? Do you see any conversation game changers?

Tina [00:23:32] One of the things that really excited me about coming to ECF and to an organization of this size and an organization that has this much impact in the community is to see how we change the way that philanthropy is viewed. I know there’s lots of talk, rightfully so, about how funders are providing money to more organizations that are either led or serving diverse communities. And I think that’s great and I-I love to see that work continue and I-I’m happy to be at an organization that is, you know, on the leading side of that.

On the other side, what I would also like to see is the face of philanthropy change so that the people that are contributing to the funds that are going to those different community members also represent the community. Um. It bothers me. Um. I wanna see… the people that look like me also be the ones that are recognized and see their— see the importance that they play in changing the city that they live in. So that’s one of the things I definitely wanna focus on is how do we get a more diverse group of people at the table that are also helping build the funds tha-that an organization like ECF is distributing in the community.

Lisa [00:24:47] So thinking about changing the face of philanthropy, could you talk about the idea of how we bring people to the table without assuming that they are already at a deficit?

Tina [00:25:01] Yeah, I had a— This really changed for me when, um… when I was at EPL and we brought in Gabor Maté. And Gabor Maté— Dr. Gabor Maté is, um, a specialist in addictions and mental health and he works in East Hastings in Vancouver. He, um, is this, um, child of, uh, survivors of Auschwitz. So he’s— he understands trauma in many ways and he’s an expert in that area. And we brought him into the library to talk, um, as one of our Forward Thinking speakers. And he did a staff session an-and staff had asked him the question of, “Should we treat homeless people in the library differently than we treat other people?” And I think everyone in the room when that question was ans— asked, including myself, thought, “Yes, we should. Um. They— there should be different standards. Um. We should have higher tolerance, different expectations because they’re homeless.”

[00:25:53] And his answer changed my perspective ‘cause he said, “No, you shouldn’t ‘cause what you’re doing when you tell someone that they can’t meet your standard is that they’re less than you. That just because they’re without a house or they’re having a mental health crisis or they have an addiction, that you will lower the bar and tell them that their behaviour is okay or that they can do something that you wouldn’t say to someone else. And by doing that, you’re telling them they’re less than you.” And I— that really stuck with me. And it makes me think of some of the EDI conversations that are happening now. Um. Well-intentioned people are talking about people of colour or women as though without their he— without a lower bar, without lower standards, they would not be successful. And I don’t like that because I don’t think of women or people of colour in deficit.

[00:26:48] They’re not in deficit. They may have had less opportunities, there may have been barriers in place, there may be systems that don’t work, there may be language barriers because you’re someone who speaks four languages and your fifth language is English. But that doesn’t mean you’re not good with languages or it doesn’t mean that you have low literacy. So I think those are the things that I want to change the way we talk about them because I don’t want to have any views that put people in deficit. Um. Because then I think it— whether it’s good intentioned or not, it’s still racism and it still implies that one group is better than the other.

Lisa [00:27:25] I love that and I’m really glad you said it ‘cause even for me, I’m having like a, “Yep, I do this too.” We see… systemic racism, we see systemic barriers and… and instead of going, “That’s bad, let’s change it.” We have that frame of, “Well, we’ll lower the bar, we’ll make exceptions.”

Tina [00:27:45] I would rather us think about what is a process that is in— more inclusive for everyone as opposed to how we restructure it to meet the needs of individuals that we’ve encountered in a specific group. Because then that helps those specific people, but it doesn’t actually change it for everyone. And I don’t wanna think that, you know, because a person has, um, trouble writing, they’re not great at writing— um, filling in written documents. Well, I don’t want it to now be a general view that people of that race or culture or from that country or that gender are not good at writing. And those are the kinds of things, I think, that can happen. And then we in— with, again, good intention, we say, “Oh, because they’re not good at writing, this group of people, we won’t ask them to write.” And then now, again, all of a sudden you have this perception of a group of people that’s negative, that— or sorry, maybe not negative, but puts them in deficit that they are behind you. And without your help, they will not get better.

[The Well Endowed Podcast jingle plays in background]

Lisa [00:28:50] Well, Tina, thank you so much for this wonderful conversation. I feel like I learned a lot in it. I really appreciate your time.

Tina [00:28:57] Thanks Lisa!

Shereen [00:28:58] Thank you so much to Tina Thomas, CEO here at Edmonton Community Foundation, for sharing her time with us.

Andrew [00:29:07] You can learn more about Tina by checking out her feature in Legacy In Action Magazine. We’ll have the link to that in our show notes.

Shereen [00:29:13] And we’ll have lots of links so you can find out more about how Edmonton Community Foundation can help you impact your community.

Andrew [00:29:20] And while you’re checking out the show notes, don’t miss out on our upcoming granting deadlines and our blog.

[The Well Endowed Podcast music plays in background of outro]

Shereen [00:29:25] That brings us to the end of the show. Thanks for sharing your time with us!

Andrew [00:29:28] Yes, thank you! If you enjoyed it, please share it with everyone you know.

Shereen [00:29:32] And if you have time, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. It’s a great way to help us grow.

Andrew [00:29:37] And come say hi to us on Facebook. You can share your thoughts and see some pictures from the show.

Shereen [00:29:40] Thanks again for tuning in!

We’ve been your hosts, Shereen Zink—

Andrew [00:29:44] And Graeme Lummer.

Shereen [00:29:45] You’re not Graeme… [laughs]

Andrew [00:29:48] [laughs] And Andrew Paul.

Shereen and Andrew [00:29:50] Until next time!

Andrew [00:29:53] The Well Endowed Podcast is produced by Edmonton Community Foundation—

Lisa [00:29:57] And is an affiliate member of the Alberta Podcast Network.

Andrew [00:30:00] This episode was edited by Lisa Pruden.

Lisa [00:30:02] You can visit our website at TheWellEndowedPodcast.com.

Andrew [00:30:06] Subscribe to us on iTunes—

Lisa [00:30:07] And follow us on Twitter at @theECF.

Andrew [00:30:11] Our theme music is by Octavo Productions.

Lisa [00:30:13] And as always, don’t forget to visit Edmonton Community Foundation at ecfoundation.org.

[theme music continues playing for a few seconds after dialogue ends]